Game Balance in IW4M

 

Game balance is what bothers me the most in this game, and since this big mod is about giving the game the features it needs, I think game balance should be a matter of discussion. Game balance in First Person Shooters is about making all the weapons viable in certain situations to make them equal in some way. Right now, there are some weapons that are clearly better than others in every aspect, and weapons that are clearly worse than every other in their category. I will share my ideas on weapon changes here and will edit the first post as my toughts evolve. I will hopefully start a serious discussion here.

 

Disclaimer :

I do not pretend to know everything and am open to new ideas and constructive feedback. If this thread is repetitive or is not respectful of the rules, I would love to be noticed so I can edit what's wrong and hopefully keep it alive. Everything written here is my opinion and unofficial. Everything is subject to change. English is not my native language so please report any errors and/or incoherences I made.

 

Weapon changes

Assault Rifles

• 
   
  M4A1
  Increased Vertical recoil
  Recoil will now slightly pull left
  (predictable but moderate recoil)
   
  FAMAS
  no changes
   
  SCAR Heavy
  Decreased hip fire accuracy (to make him stand as a battle rifle instead of an assault rifle)
   
  TAR-21
  no changes
   
  FAL
  Increased both raise and drop time
   
  M16A4
  Remove the recoil buff with the Holo sight (if not done already)
   
  ACR
  Increased overall recoil (round pattern)
  (unpredictable but low recoil)
   
  F2000
  Decreased unloaded reload time from 3.7 sec. to 3.2 sec.
  Decreased unloaded reload time from 3.0 sec. to 2.8 sec.
  Increased Aiming speed
  (Making it a more close quarters focused rifle)
   
  AK-47
  Increased Vertical recoil
  Decreased Horizontal recoil

 

more coming soon

 

Thanks for reading !

 

- Tyonar

I don't think they want to change anything in the game balance, I'm not sure whether recoil can be changed anyway.

But, to give you some constructive criticism:

FAL is good as it is, as it's rather inaccurate when hip firing and it's semi-automatic

TAR-21 have a different recoil patern.

That's my opinion though.

 

But as said, I don't think it's going to happen, nor do I want it to happen.

Don't know if possible as if you change one weapon you have to change the weapon attachments as well. Unless... find and replace would do good here.

Well, the game is how it is. Changes might be necessary, but we don't want to change the entire game.

Also would the client and server files mismatch and therfore cause a no ammo bug.

Balanced weapons would be nice, but it's not really realizable.

 

 

I don't think they want to change anything in the game balance, I'm not sure whether recoil can be changed anyway.

But, to give you some constructive criticism:

FAL is good as it is, as it's rather inaccurate when hip firing and it's semi-automatic

TAR-21 have a different recoil patern.

That's my opinion though.

 

But as said, I don't think it's going to happen, nor do I want it to happen.

 

Yes, recoil is adjustable through the raw weapon files I guess.

There are only 2 weapons in the game I'd consider badly balanced

 

It's f2000 and ump

 

F2000 has poor recoil, poor damage, high rate of fire doesnt make it any better

 

ump's minimum damage is too high

 

ump's minimum damage is too high

 

Yes, in combination with it's big mag size and pretty low recoil i'd consider it the most 'overpowered' primary weapon in the game.

 

Also, i'd call the deagle the most underpowered secondary (or pistol at least) in the game due to it's high recoil and less damage compared to magnum.

 

@OP IMO doing the changes through a mod so that the vanilla game stays 'untouched' would be the best solution.

It would be possible through weapon files, but then again it'd be pretty much unsuable on servers until NTA changes the way mods (or point in time more likely -> downloading the mod before the map starts to load) are being downloaded onto the client.

Another problem being the animations. If you changed the reload times wouldn't the animations be more out of sync?

Another problem being the animations. If you changed the reload times wouldn't the animations be more out of sync?

animations scale automatically, yaknow

How come threre is no nerf to UMP in the list? lol...

EDIT: and grenade launcher?

Aren't we trying to keep the game as close to the original as possible with a few extras ?

Aren't we trying to keep the game as close to the original as possible with a few extras ?

Why you should keep the game as close to the original? This is my opinion: The game released 3-4 years ago and I think it become boring and frustrating, since no one can play the same game for so much time. Even with all the new gametypes and SP maps which fourdeltaone offers, we still need something new. That's why there are so many threads lately about people who quit the game, and people ask when nuketown come out, we need something new and freshing which will keep this game alive. Game balance will be a nice start, I am sure I am not the only one who tired of the overpowered weapons in the game.

Aren't we trying to keep the game as close to the original as possible with a few extras ?

Why you should keep the game as close to the original? This is my opinion: The game released 3-4 years ago and I think it become boring and frustrating, since no one can play the same game for so much time. Even with all the new gametypes and SP maps which fourdeltaone offers, we still need something new. That's why there are so many threads lately about people who quit the game, and people ask when nuketown come out, we need something new and freshing which will keep this game alive. Game balance will be a nice start, I am sure I am not the only one who tired of the overpowered weapons in the game.

>'so many' threads about nuketown

Please, link me to atleast 5.

 

Also, such game modifications are up to NTA and his mood, which I'm quite sure he wouldn't even do.

Aren't we trying to keep the game as close to the original as possible with a few extras ?

Why you should keep the game as close to the original? This is my opinion: The game released 3-4 years ago and I think it become boring and frustrating, since no one can play the same game for so much time. Even with all the new gametypes and SP maps which fourdeltaone offers, we still need something new. That's why there are so many threads lately about people who quit the game, and people ask when nuketown come out, we need something new and freshing which will keep this game alive. Game balance will be a nice start, I am sure I am not the only one who tired of the overpowered weapons in the game.

>'so many' threads about nuketown

Please, link me to atleast 5.

 

Also, such game modifications are up to NTA and his mood, which I'm quite sure he wouldn't even do.

The "so many threads" was about people who quit the game or complain about hackers, not nuketown

Aren't we trying to keep the game as close to the original as possible with a few extras ?

Why you should keep the game as close to the original? This is my opinion: The game released 3-4 years ago and I think it become boring and frustrating, since no one can play the same game for so much time. Even with all the new gametypes and SP maps which fourdeltaone offers, we still need something new. That's why there are so many threads lately about people who quit the game, and people ask when nuketown come out, we need something new and freshing which will keep this game alive. Game balance will be a nice start, I am sure I am not the only one who tired of the overpowered weapons in the game.

>'so many' threads about nuketown

Please, link me to atleast 5.

 

Also, such game modifications are up to NTA and his mood, which I'm quite sure he wouldn't even do.

The "so many threads" was about people who quit the game or complain about hackers, not nuketown

You said 'and' which also implied on the 'nuketown' part.

>implying steam version has less cheaters

Also, aCI3 is in development...so stay frosty ;3

 

I would keep game balance as a mod(let's hope loading weapon files on dedi will be fixed), as some people would still prefer core gameplay.

as some people would still prefer core gameplay.

g_oldmode 1 or a similarly-named dvar

as some people would still prefer core gameplay.

g_oldmode 1 or a similarly-named dvar

would be kewl.

Game balance;

Nurf/disable UMP, disable tubes, akimbo

Disable ninja perk

 

Awesome game inbound

disable UMP, disable tubes, akimbo

Disable ninja perk

Awesome game inbound

Then this -> viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8763 will make the game "awesome" for you.

Yeah, reload animations scale.

Just screwing around with the weapon files proves this- I have a link to them in my post history; and they go into the same place the 1887 modification files are currently in.

 

You do, of course, have to adjust reload add time to suit (otherwise you get Mini-Uzi syndrome, where the reload animation is finished before the bullets are in the magazine) if you're trying to make this into an actual mod. The variables to change are self-evident in the files.

 

I'd like to work on something like this for IW5 since there are so many useless guns in that one- in IW4, only the Mini-Uzi, the Desert Eagle, and the F2000 are outclassed; where in IW5, the DE, MP412, CM901, MP5, UMP45, AA-12, 1887, SPAS-12, AS50, L118A, Dragunov, PKP, MG36, and G18 are completely outclassed, but there aren't any files available yet (and I have no idea how to begin to crack them- I thought NTA cracked the last batch for MW2 but I have no source on that).

 

 

- Tyonar

I do, however, have some problems with your proposed balance changes.

 

The ACR, while recoilless, is the weakest gun in the game- 750RPM and 30-20 damage.

The M4A1 isn't any better, really, as it only shoots 60RPM faster and has slightly more recoil.

 

And... that's the tradeoff. More skilled players will silence their 40-30 weapons and run Cold Blooded + Silencer and still be able to compete with ACR/M4 SP players at any range (the variance is ~100RPM) along with the huge bonuses that stealth play brings (no red dot/name, no killstreak targeting).

 

The M16/FAMAS... need more differentiation. We could port over some G11 characteristics (flat 35 damage or 35-30, 1200RPM) for the FAMAS, and make the Holo M16's recoil permanent.

 

SCAR-H/FAL/AK-47... changes just for change's sake? The AK already has very comparable recoil to the SCAR-H, the FAL... carry akimbo pistols (for quickdrop) or the Masterkey, and the SCAR-H will get beaten by any gun in hipfire anyways since it's the slowest gun in the game and only has 20 round magazines.

 

The F2000... what are you going to define this gun as?

Are you going to make it competitive up close (the MP5K shoots just as fast and does more damage with nearly the same recoil, both have to burst at distance)?

Or better at a distance (30-25 and less recoil, and/or faster reload speed)?

 

The UMP's minimum damage might be high, but it's hardly good at SMG use in the first place since everything else in the game outguns it up close (only 3 primary weapons will lose to it up close, and that's only if they DON'T have SP on: the M4, ACR, and SCAR-H). The high damage at range is designed to make up for this.

We could just change the damage when silenced to 40-20 and the magazine (on all configurations) to 25 from 32; so you can choose long-range damage or stealth, not both.

@ FiveNinetyEight

 

The balance between the M4A1 and the ACR is very hard. I tried messing with the recoil, and I see this will simply make them useless. I agree that those changes were bad. I will definetly need some help with those.

 

What I don't like about the core M16 is that once you unlock the Holo sight, it becomes almost pointless to use the FAMAS since the M16 is the same with less recoil. I don't really like flat damage at all ranges because you then get no tradeoff for using the Silencer.

 

After looking back at it, yeah i think those changes were uneeded.

 

I tried to define the F2000 like some kind of hybrid between SMGs and ARs

 

I have my little idea for the UMP-45.. Magazine size down to 25 + increased overall recoil.

 

Thanks for your feedback.. If you can and wish tp help me furthermore with weapon files and modding, your help is welcome !

@ FiveNinetyEight

I don't really like flat damage at all ranges because you then get no tradeoff for using the Silencer.

LMGs use a flat damage at all ranges. When you put a Silencer on them, their damage will be decreased on every range, dropping of from 30 normal to 20 when silenced.

Very nice list, heres my only suggestion;

UMP-45 - Remove silencer attachment/make it 3 hits close range, 5 hits long range.

LMGs use a flat damage at all ranges. When you put a Silencer on them, their damage will be decreased on every range, dropping of from 30 normal to 20 when silenced.

 

forgot about that one.. you're right..

 

UMP-45 - Remove silencer attachment/make it 3 hits close range, 5 hits long range.

 

Agree with the damage reduction, but why removing the silencer ?

w2000? Too high recoil and small damage:)

w2000? Too high recoil and small damage:)

On the WA2000, both recoil and damage are only slightly higher than on the M21